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加尔文相信“有限代赎论”吗?(麦种传道会)

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发表于 2017-9-18 20:54 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 新造的弟兄 于 2017-9-18 21:14 编辑

定义:“有限代赎”(Limited Atonement),又称为“特定救赎”(Particular Redemption),是加尔文主义五要点(通常简称为 TULIP)的第三点。意思是“主耶稣在十字架上的死,虽然足以(sufficient)拯救所有人,但只是对蒙拣选的人有效(efficient)。”或者说,十字架的死虽然足以使所有人都得着救恩的益处,但神却定义只给祂所拣选的人。


这个神学体系冠以宗教改革家加尔文(John Calvin)之名,但加尔文本人是否属于加尔文主义呢?我们就以“有限代赎”为例,作点简单的说明。


摘录自加尔文(John Calvin)著,赵中辉、宋华忠译,《罗马人书注释》,五18

保罗认为恩惠是普及众人的;普及的意思并不是在事实上临到众人,却是说因为人人都可以来得的。虽然基督是为全世界的人类而受死,神的恩慈也是不论何人都可以来领取;然而并不是人人都接受了基督。


He makes this favour common to all,because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity insiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him.



英文译者欧文(John Owen)在注脚列出拉丁文,然后补充说:“从这句话似乎可以看出:加尔文主张普遍的救赎”(It appears from this sentence that Calvin held general redemption)。


 楼主| 发表于 2017-9-18 20:55 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 新造的弟兄 于 2017-9-18 21:05 编辑

这个神学体系冠以宗教改革家加尔文(John Calvin)之名,但加尔文本人是否属于加尔文主义呢?我们就以“有限代赎”为例,作点简单的说明。

定义:“有限代赎”(Limited Atonement),又称为“特定救赎”(Particular Redemption),是加尔文主义五要点(通常简称为 TULIP)的第三点。意思是“主耶稣在十字架上的死,虽然足以(sufficient)拯救所有人,但只是对蒙拣选的人有效(efficient)。”或者说,十字架的死虽然足以使所有人都得着救恩的益处,但神却定意只给祂所拣选的人。



摘录自加尔文(John Calvin,《以赛亚书注释》, 五十三12



祂却担当多人的罪


⋯⋯因为当祂如此蒙羞受辱, 丢脸到极致, 为要叫我们这些已经被宣判为永久灭亡的人可以与祂一同享受不朽的荣耀, 我们就在祂身上见到神的爱的一个惊人而值得纪念的证据。

⋯⋯祂孤身一人承担多人的刑罚, 因为整个世界的罪都归在祂身上。 从其他经文--尤其从罗马书第五章--可以明显看见: "多人" 有时是指 "所有人"



He bore the sin of many. This is added by way of correction, that, when we hear of the shame of Christ’s death, we may not think that it was a blot on the character of Christ, and that our minds may not, by being prejudiced in that manner, be prevented from receiving the victory which he obtained for us, that is, the fruit of his death. He shews, therefore, that this was done in order that he might take our sins upon him; and his object is, that, whenever the death of Christ shall be mentioned, we may at the same time remember the atonement made for us. And this fruit swallows up all the shame of the death of Christ, that his majesty and glory may be more clearly seen than if we only beheld him sitting in heaven; for we have in him a striking and memorable proof of the love of God, when he is so insulted, degraded, and loaded with the utmost disgrace, in order that we, on whom had been pronounced a sentence of everlasting destruction, may enjoy along with him immortal glory.


I have followed the ordinary interpretation, that “he bore the sin of many,” though we might without impropriety consider the Hebrew word ???? (r?bbīm) to denote “Great and Noble.” And thus the contrast would be more complete, that Christ, while “he was ranked among transgressors,” became surety for every one of the most excellent of the earth, and suffered in the room of those who hold the highest rank in the world. I leave this to the judgment of my readers. Yet I approve of the ordinary reading, that he alone bore the punishment of many, because on him was laid the guilt of the whole world. It is evident from other passages, and especially from the fifth chapter of the Epistle to the Romans, that “many” sometimes denotes “all.”



And prayed for the transgressors. Because the ratification of the atonement, with which Christ has washed us by his death, implies that he pleaded with the Father on our behalf, it was proper that this should be added. For, as in the ancient Law the priest, who “never entered without blood,” at the same time interceded for the people; so what was there shadowed out is fulfilled in Christ. (Ex. 30:10; Heb. 9:7.) First, he offered the sacrifice of his body, and shed his blood, that he might endure the punishment which was due to us; and secondly, in order that the atonement might take effect, he performed the office of an advocate, and interceded for all who embraced this sacrifice by faith; as is evident from that prayer which he left to us, written by the hand of John, “I pray not for these only, but for all who shall believe on me through their word.” (John 17:20.) If we then belong to their number, let us be fully persuaded that Christ hath suffered for us, that we may now enjoy the benefit of his death.


——John Calvin, Commentary on the Book of the Prophet Isaiah, vol. 4, trans. by William Pringle (Baker Books, 2009), pp. 130-32

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-9-18 20:56 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 新造的弟兄 于 2017-9-18 21:15 编辑

加尔文主义这个神学体系冠以宗教改革家加尔文(John Calvin)之名,但加尔文本人是否属于加尔文主义呢? 我们就以「有限代赎」为例,作点简单的说明。


定义:「有限代赎」(Limited Atonement),又称为「特定救赎」(Particular Redemption),是加尔文主义五要点(通常简称为 TULIP)的第三点。 意思是「主耶稣在十字架上的死,虽然足以(sufficient)拯救所有人,但只是对蒙拣选的人有效(efficient)。 」或者说,十字架的死虽然足以使所有人都得着救恩的益处,但神却定意只给祂所拣选的人。



摘录自加尔文(John Calvin)著,《加拉太书注释》,五12
加拉太书五12:「恨不得[他们]......把自己割绝了。 」


......这位使徒应该是愿意所有人都得救,没有一个人灭亡的......因为神的旨意是要我们寻求所有人——毫无例外地——得救,因为基督是为全世界的罪而受苦的。......

12. Would that they were even cut off. His indignation proceeds still farther, and he prays for destruction on those impostors by whom the Galatians had been deceived. The word, “cut off,” appears to be employed in allusion to the circumcision which they pressed. “They tear the church for the sake of circumcision: I wish they were entirely cut off.” Chrysostom favours this opinion. But how can such an imprecation be reconciled with the mildness of an apostle, who ought to wish that all should be saved, and that not a single person should perish? So far as men are concerned, I admit the force of this argument; for it is the will of God that we should seek the salvation of all men without exception, as Christ suffered for the sins of the who le world. But devout minds are sometimes carried beyond the consideration of men, and led to fix their eye on the glory of God, and the kingdo m of Christ. The glory of God, which is in itself more excellent than the salvation of men, ought to receive from us a higher degree of esteem an d regard. Believers earnestly desirous that the glory of God should be promoted, forget men, and forget the world, and would rather choose th at the whole world should perish, than that the smallest portion of the glory of God should be withdrawn.

——John Calvin, Commentary onTHE EPISTLES OF PAUL to the GALATIANS AND EPHESIANS,  trans. by William Pringle (Baker Books, 2009), pp. 156-57



另一个译本:


......这位使徒应该是愿意所有人都得救,没有一个人灭亡的......因为神所托付我们的,是所有人——毫无例外——的救恩,正如基督是为全世界的罪而受苦的。......

... for God commends to us the salvation of all men without exception, even as Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world....

——John Calvin, Calvin's New Testament Commentary: GALATIANS, EPHESIANS,  PHILIPPIANS AND COLOSSIANS, trans. by T. H. L. Parker ( Eerdmans, 1965), p. 99


待续

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发表于 2017-9-18 22:11 | 显示全部楼层
我相信这一点论述的时候,是因为我明白了上帝只让部分人得救。在这个有效代赎的概念上,有点像是必然逻辑结论的感觉。既然上帝早就清清楚楚的定好了灭亡和得救的人,就算耶稣的代赎对全人类有效,但仍然不会关系到多一个少一个人进天国。  讨论到最后 这个话题略像是一个空洞了
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发表于 2017-9-18 23:12 | 显示全部楼层
我近来有一种设想, 蒙拣选的人数目是不确定的、可能的数,而真正得救的人数是一个确定的数。可惜这个问题现在论坛上没人能交流!
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发表于 2017-9-19 04:26 | 显示全部楼层
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
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发表于 2017-9-19 04:32 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2017-9-19 04:46 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2017-9-19 07:00 约拿的家手机版 | 显示全部楼层
仓里的谷 发表于 2017-9-18 23:12
我近来有一种设想, 蒙拣选的人数目是不确定的、可能的数,而真正得救的人数是一个确定的数。可惜这个问题 ...

为什么会这样想?既然蒙拣选的人没有得救,他本身就不是蒙拣选的 莫非还有另外一种思路?
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发表于 2017-9-19 12:16 | 显示全部楼层
仓里的谷 发表于 2017-9-18 23:12
我近来有一种设想, 蒙拣选的人数目是不确定的、可能的数,而真正得救的人数是一个确定的数。可惜这个问题 ...

来说说,我听
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